The Lost Rock ‘n’ Roll Dating Interviews: John Waters, 2014

In the first installment of this unearthed Q&A series, the Walt Disney of filth dishes on epic plane crashes, Pink Flamingos, naked fans, and a Christmas movie about meat thieves you’ll wish existed.

“Tim, stop trying to lift my wallet!” The great John Waters [l] and Yerz Troolee, backstage at the ACL Moody Theater, February 2015. [pic: Erica McCarthy]

12 years ago, my friend Daniel House—co-mastermind with Jack Endino of charter grunge outfit Skin Yard and chief driving force behind C/Z Records, among other worthwhile ventures—had a website going called Rock ‘n’ Roll Dating. The idea should be self-explanatory. But he got a hold of me because he’d instituted an interview series at the site with punk musicians and subcultural heroes, in addition to being OKCupid for folks who like loud electric guitars.

After he'd interviewed some cool people like Billy Zoom and I believe maybe Mark Lanegan, he asked if I’d step in and sorta take over the feature, or at least do the lion’s share of interviews. I’d given him DEVO’s Gerry Casale and Syl Sylvain and Cheetah Chrome in their Batusis days, as well as one of Mick Farren’s final interviews, before I moved back to Austin. He met with me at that year’s SXSW and sat down and formulated a gameplan to make the interviews section as meaty, substantial and culturally significant as anything published by RE/Search Publications. (In fact, RE/Search’s V. Vale was among our subjects!)

We managed to get Q-and-A’s up with Mike Watt and Kid Congo Powers before the venture ended. But a large number of conversations remained unpublished. House (who has a Skin Yard box set we should review soon) recently consented to my finally posting this archive here at The ‘Stack. And why not commence proceedings with this uproarious and informative talk with my all-time favorite film director, John Waters?

From my original introduction: “John Samuel Waters Jr., the son of upper middle class Roman Catholics Patricia Ann and John Samuel Waters Sr., was born April 22, 1946, in Baltimore, Maryland, and raised in nearby Lutherville. Although his fire equipment manufacturer father might have preferred another career for his son, he did provide financing for at least one of Waters' early films, 1972's hilarious gross-out classic Pink Flamingos. Hence, in his support, John Sr. launched a 51 year career for his son as the King Of Trash, spanning 17 films, numerous appearances in other cinematic and televisual productions as either an actor or voice-actor, five books, two CDs, and a touring one-man show, This Filthy World. He has become a beloved American icon—‘both filthy AND respectable,’ as he notes here. In the process, he built a production and repertory company, Dreamland, out of Baltimore friends including his muse Glen Milstead, otherwise known as the heavyset cross-dressing actor Divine. Portions of this interview from October 13th, 2014 ran in The Austin Chronicle, as Waters was promoting his best-selling travel diary, Carsick, and was about to bring a version of This Filthy World to the annual Fun Fun Fun Fest. He spoke from his office in Baltimore, where he still lives and works, besides maintaining residences in New York, San Francisco, and Provincetown.”

TIM: You and I met about 12 years ago, although I do not expect you to remember it all. I was living in New York City at the time and working at The Strand Bookstore. I got called to the front desk to help Fred Bass unload some books, and I'm hurrying, trying to get up there as quickly as I can. I bumped into you! And I was just thrilled: "Oh! Hi, Mr. Waters!" [laughs]

JOHN WATERS: Oh! That, I might not remember! But I hope I was nice, because I usually am to everyone I see on the street.

TIM: You were. The one thing I took away from that (experience), because I did get to speak to you a little bit, is that you're gracious to a fault, and you clearly love your fans.

JOHN WATERS: Oh, they bought me my apartments and my clothes! Why wouldn't I be grateful to them? Are you kidding? The only time I'm rude to anybody is if they ask me, "Do you have a hobby?" And then, I'm furious! Do I LOOK like a dabbler?!

TIM: Well, you may not be a dabbler. But you have built a life for yourself that has enabled you to make a living being - and I believe you've called yourself this, too - “everybody's pervy uncle.”

JOHN WATERS: Maybe. That's true—I'd be a much better uncle than father, because I'm way too self-involved and travel too much. But I'll get you an abortion. I'll get you out of jail. I'll put you into rehab, all the things uncles are supposed to do.

TIM: You certainly have a knack for taking the most sordid things in society and making them seem as wholesome as a Walt Disney film.

JOHN WATERS: Well, I think Pecker got a review that said it was "a Disney film for perverts." (laughs) I thought that was a good way to put it. It's because I'm not mean-spirited. I genuinely do love everything that I make fun of, or am curious about. I'm always curious about human behavior, so I think the politics of my movies has always been, "Don't judge people if you don't know their story or what happened to them." And I've always been fascinated by people who think they're normal, but are completely insane.

TIM: That's true. There's a generosity of spirit and a great deal of humor in what you do.

JOHN WATERS: Well, thank you. That's all I'm trying to do, is surprise you and make you chuckle at the human condition.

TIM: The reason we're interviewing you today is you're going to be in Austin for the Fun Fun Fun Fest, doing spoken word.

JOHN WATERS: Right. But what do you know? Maybe I'll sing! Maybe I'll become a rapper! If Justin Bieber can be Jizzle, I'll be Whizzle! I'm gonna do high end rap: "I'm tired of your hatin'/I'm gonna buy you a Cy Twombly paintin'!"

TIM: Well, it is generally a music fest.

JOHN WATERS: Hey, I've played Bonnaroo, I've played Bumbershoot, I've played Coachella. I love it, because now that Sly Stone isn't working, I'm always the oldest performer at these rock festivals.

TIM: So, you're gonna do "I Want To Take You Higher," because Sly can't?

JOHN WATERS: I'm gonna do a medley of every hit by every rock star that ever died in a plane crash.

TIM: Actually, that would be a good repertoire.

JOHN WATERS: It would be. It would be great. Some really great people died that way. I made a person nervous once. I take Cape Air a lot, which is a tiny six seater plane. And I don't remember this, but I met somebody who said to me, "I was seated next to you on Cape Air once in a thunderstorm, and I was terrified. And you just turned and whispered to me, 'The Big Bopper, Patsy Cline, Ricky Nelson—' I was SO HORRIFIED you'd say that to me!" I have no memory of doing that, but I would have, I guess.

TIM: That DOES seem like a very John Waters move.

JOHN WATERS: I guess! (chuckles) Another friend said she'd hate to be in a plane crash with me, even if she survived, because then the news items would be, "Plane Crashes - Three Surviviors - John Waters Dies." She's not in show business, so that would be the most humiliating thing, because that she survived would not be the headline.

TIM: You've been to Austin on a number of occasions. So, you do have a bit of a relationship with the town.

JOHN WATERS: Yes. First time that I was there, Tobe Hooper and I got really drunk and stayed up all night and had a great time. I still have the skull that he gave me from the set of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And this was really a long time ago.

TIM: And from what I understand, you've slowed down on drinking and smoking.

JOHN WATERS: I don't smoke, and I haven't in a while. And today is 4,300 days even!

TIM: Right. You carry a card in your wallet with the date on it.

JOHN WATERS: Yes. But it's so boring talking about people's recovery. That was the only thing I was addicted to. Thank god Kool cigarettes changed their packaging. Now I'm not even tempted.

But I've always had a great time in Austin. It's always been a really good place for me, from the very beginning of my career.

TIM: What is it you're planning to do at Fun Fun Fun? I know you have a show that you tour with called This Filthy World.

JOHN WATERS: It's the rock ‘n’ roll version. I haven't been there in awhile, so it's lots of new jokes. And certainly, it will be the jokes that embrace music. This Filthy Music World - maybe that's what it should be called.

TIM: I'm rather surprised you never started a punk band or anything like that.

JOHN WATERS: I can't sing, or believe me - I would have exploited that. But I do have two albums out: I have A John Waters Christmas and A Date With John Waters. So, it's not that I haven't toured in record shops. When I was on tour and at Amoeba Records in San Francisco, that was the best. That was the biggest signing I ever had in my life. It went on for five hours, and there were people in line nude waiting for me, which I had never seen before. It was a straight guy who just wanted a picture with me nude at Christmas to send to his mother.

TIM: Poor Mom!

JOHN WATERS: Eh, he seemed like a guy whose mom would have appreciated it. Y'know, parents bring me their fucked-up kids now, and it's kind of a last ditch effort to bond. I think it's very touching.

TIM: Is your show this time around going to have anything to do with your recent book, Carsick?

JOHN WATERS: Oh, I talk about that, certainly. And I'll talk about the best day that happened in my life and the worst day that happened, because I wrote about that in the book. So, I talk a little bit about Carsick. But I always feel that if I've written the material in the book, then I take it out of my spoken word show, because they have to pay a separate admission. I can say it and then print it. But if it's been printed, I try not to use it in the spoken word show.

TIM: I've seen in the book and in several interviews that you have had a film project in the works called Fruitcake, but you can't get financing for it.

JOHN WATERS: Well, I got paid great to write it! I had a development deal and everything! Who knows? Maybe it's because I answer all the meetings afterwards in a bright, polite note on my Blackberry, and I sign it, "Best, J.W." - for John Waters. But the Blackberry corrects it to "jew!" [laughs] And it took me a few times to realize that! So, that’s maybe the reason I'm having problems.

TIM: That seems odd, since all your films since Hairspray at least have been box office successes.

JOHN WATERS: I don't know. A Dirty Shame didn't make any money. The thing about my movies is they continue to play forever, and they're always available. They're in box sets, and on television. Polyester came back with new Odorama cards in America and London. Now it's going to open in France. So, I think that they're like a backlist in publishing - they never go away. My father said, "Yeah, like cancer!" My father always gave me the best quotes. After A Dirty Shame, he said, "It was funny, but I hope I never see it again!" Another classic blurb from my dad!

TIM: Your dad, who actually financed Pink Flamingos.

JOHN WATERS: He did, and never saw it. He was great, though. When he died, I found in his safety deposit box all the little notes when I paid him fifty bucks, a hundred bucks. I was very touched by that.

TIM: So, what could we expect out of Fruitcake? It's supposed to be a Christmas film, right?

JOHN WATERS: It's a terrible, wonderful Christmas kids' film about meat thieves. It's been printed a lot, so I don't have a new spin on it. I think it's the only film genre I haven't satirized, the children's movie. And I think it could work.

TIM: You've also had the very unique experience of seeing two of your films turned into Broadway musicals.

JOHN WATERS: Yep, I think successfully. And Hairspray, as we know, is - thank god! - the gift that keeps on giving. Cry Baby, I really liked. I think they did a great job. But the main problem was that it was the sexiest musical for the whole family, [laughs] and that causes problems! It's hard to market that: "Come to Broadway and get laid!" The high school production - the only high school production with nudity! (laughs) But when you think about it, Hairspray is now the play that plays at every high school, and Tracy Turnblad doesn't think her mother is a man. But it's a secret that the audience knows and keeps from the actors.

TIM: Do you think they would have trouble tuning Pink Flamingos into a Broadway musical?

JOHN WATERS: No, but it should be a children's movie. If you took the sex out, it could be the battle of the gross-outs. It could work well. And Serial Mom could be a good TV series, where she kills for political correctness every month, building up to it weekly. And I don't know which one I would like to see performed on ice skates. You laugh, but I said that on the Letterman show once as a joke, and they called up the next day and said, "We're interested!" (laughs)

TIM: John Waters On Ice! Wow!

JOHN WATERS: Polyester On Ice. You never know! I want to reinvent them all. Get 'em all out there working!

TIM: You have joked that you feel you're getting too respectable -

JOHN WATERS: No! I never said "too respectable!" I just had a big 50 year retrospective at Lincoln Center, and finally—I'm filthy AND respectable! That's a great, great feeling!

TIM: John, you may have just given me the title to my story.

JOHN WATERS: Well, that's good. Because I'm an insider now. I'm not gonna get better than Lincoln Center. I'm gonna get The Kennedy Honors! It was like being at my own funeral. I was excited! I got to hear all the nice things people said. And they showed all the films, including the very first one that had only been show once before, in a beatnik coffee house to absolutely no notice. And 50 years later, we're in Lincoln Center! That's the only two showings it's ever had.

TIM: That's a true American success story.

JOHN WATERS: It is. It's a long way from Lutherville, Maryland.

POSTSCRIPT: I discovered, while watching Waters’ spoken word set at Fun Fun Fun, that he’d essentially rehearsed his act during our interview! He told me later, “Of course, I rehearsed with you in our interview! I wouldn’t get a chance, otherwise! I’m so overscheduled these days, I have to schedule the day I blow off work to eat candy all day!” So, if this interview feels as if I was Waters’ straight man for his comedy routines, it’s because I was!

The version of this conversation which ran in The Austin Chronicle was my third cover story that year alone. Waters’ office contacted me shortly after requesting my mailing address, as he wanted to put me on his annual Christmas card list! Let me tell you from experience that John Waters sends the best, funniest, most scandalous advent calendars ever! I think the only reason I stopped getting them is that I moved too much over the years, and I guess USPS didn’t forward his cards to me! Oh, I wish I was still on that list!

I also received invites thereafter, every time he came to town to perform This Filthy World. I would be his guest, and be part of a small group of visitors he received backstage to enjoy refreshments and conversation. As I stated above, my experience with John Waters has always shown him to be gracious to a fault, ever appreciative of those of us who’ve received so much joy from his films and writings. John Waters is truly an American treasure. I will gladly interview him, anytime. Until the next occasion….

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